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Ukraine rejects EU
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Astraeos Offline
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Post: #1
Ukraine rejects EU
Interesting.

This will help preserve Ukraine just like a nature preserve. Any thoughts?
11-22-2013, 11:30 PM
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Dash Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Ukraine rejects EU
all for it!
11-23-2013, 12:05 AM
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Partisan Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Ukraine rejects EU
(11-22-2013, 11:30 PM)Astraeos Wrote: Interesting.

This will help preserve Ukraine just like a nature preserve. Any thoughts?

I don't think it was ever in the pipeline (pardon the pun). Ukraine has and will always be within Moscow's sphere of influence. There's just too much commonality between the two, be it linguistic, religious, cultural, political and economic. Not to mention Sevastopol which is the home of Russia's Black Sea Fleet. There was no way that Russia would allow Ukraine to break away. Georgia tried it back in late summer 2008 and received an unmerciful spanking.

Nature preserve? Ukraine has been the destination of sex tourists for the past 20 years and since 2005 that flow has turned into a flood. Euro 2012 opened the place up internationally so it is now well exposed with a noticeable Western feel to the place especially in Kiev where all life seems to gravitate from. However with Kiev rejecting Brussels' overtures it will (like Serbia) be straddling two horses, EU and the East. Kiev and especially Odessa have always had an international/cosmopolitan feel but the provinces are largely untapped and go unnoticed by mass tourism. That situation will likely remain for the foreseeable future.

Now if you are talking about a 'nature preserve', Belarus is a great example. A closed off society with fabulous unspoiled, feminine women. A much more softer and orderly version of provincial Russia.

(This post was last modified: 11-23-2013, 12:29 AM by Partisan.)
11-23-2013, 12:10 AM
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The Realness Offline
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RE: Ukraine rejects EU
this changes nothing changes for gaming. if they went with EU, then maybe in 5-10 years it would be getting worse, but only for the smaller cities because like partisan said, kiev and odessa are already those kinds of spots
11-23-2013, 12:21 AM
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Paulie Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Ukraine rejects EU
(11-23-2013, 12:10 AM)Partisan Wrote:
(11-22-2013, 11:30 PM)Astraeos Wrote: Interesting.

This will help preserve Ukraine just like a nature preserve. Any thoughts?

I don't think it was ever in the pipeline (pardon the pun). Ukraine has and will always be within Moscow's sphere of influence. There's just too much commonality between the two, be it linguistic, religious, cultural, political and economic. Not to mention Sevastopol which is the home of Russia's Black Sea Fleet. There was no way that Russia would allow Ukraine to break away. Georgia tried it back in late summer 2008 and received an unmerciful spanking.

Nature preserve? Ukraine has been the destination of sex tourists for the past 20 years and since 2005 that flow has turned into a flood. Euro 2012 opened the place up internationally so it is now well exposed with a noticeable Western feel to the place especially in Kiev where all life seems to gravitate from. However with Kiev rejecting Brussels' overtures it will (like Serbia) be straddling two horses, EU and the East. Kiev and especially Odessa have always had an international/cosmopolitan feel but the provinces are largely untapped and go unnoticed by mass tourism. That situation will likely remain for the foreseeable future.

Now if you are talking about a 'nature preserve', Belarus is a great example. A closed off society with fabulous unspoiled, feminine women. A much more softer and orderly version of provincial Russia.

Glad they didn't sign the deal, at $1 Billion the EU simply did not offer a big enough incentive, a paltry sum compared to the hundreds of Billions that the EU pumped into countries like Greece, Spain, Portugal etc.

Ukrainians are a world away from being true Europeans, as partisan say's there's too much common ground between them and Russian and other CU states.

As far as i'm concerned everywhere in Ukraine is still ripe for the picking, for myself at least, with the exception perhaps of Odessa which is used to mass tourism in the summer months, but I still like it.

You compare somewhere like Krakow to Kiev....Kiev has almost zero stag tourists, and most of the foreigners are useless Turks and Arabs, most of these guys will go home to Ankara happy with a makeout from a 5. Krakow is a fucking shithole these days, been destroyed by mass tourism.

The provinces are certainly untapped, I have found some great cities on my travels where one can truly feel like a god. The only foreigners that most of these cities have is Arab medical students, in the provinces they are even more racist than in the big cities naturally, so these guys get clse to nothing.

Ukraine is great now and will be for sometime, those who visit Ukraine now are, as far as i'm concerned, pussy pioneers.

There's some many lovely women in this country, and so many uneligible men.

This country is really perfect for guy's who want to spend some extended time here pumping and dumping.

I've almost ruled out ever getting a Ukrainian girlfriend


11-23-2013, 12:52 AM
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William Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Ukraine rejects EU
Maybe this is all in my head, but I have noticed some "progress" in Kharkiv over the past couple years. Smartphones are very common now. Two years ago, it was 99% old-school feature phones. There are better products to buy in the supermarkets. Taxi drivers and cashiers are a little bit more likely to speak English now than before. One of these taxi drivers explained to me in English that he just started studying English in the past year.
11-23-2013, 10:08 PM
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Paulie Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Ukraine rejects EU
Lvov has changed greatly since I first came three years ago, the centre of the city is under constant construction, new restaurants, coffee shops, roads, hotels, bars etc. Some of my friends who have been here for 5 years plus say that when they first got here there was barely anywhere to get a coffee and no western style restaurants. They also told me you got more attention as a foreigner.

11-24-2013, 12:51 AM
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Astraeos Offline
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RE: Ukraine rejects EU
(11-23-2013, 12:10 AM)Partisan Wrote:
(11-22-2013, 11:30 PM)Astraeos Wrote: Interesting.

This will help preserve Ukraine just like a nature preserve. Any thoughts?

I don't think it was ever in the pipeline (pardon the pun). Ukraine has and will always be within Moscow's sphere of influence. There's just too much commonality between the two, be it linguistic, religious, cultural, political and economic. Not to mention Sevastopol which is the home of Russia's Black Sea Fleet. There was no way that Russia would allow Ukraine to break away. Georgia tried it back in late summer 2008 and received an unmerciful spanking.

Nature preserve? Ukraine has been the destination of sex tourists for the past 20 years and since 2005 that flow has turned into a flood. Euro 2012 opened the place up internationally so it is now well exposed with a noticeable Western feel to the place especially in Kiev where all life seems to gravitate from. However with Kiev rejecting Brussels' overtures it will (like Serbia) be straddling two horses, EU and the East. Kiev and especially Odessa have always had an international/cosmopolitan feel but the provinces are largely untapped and go unnoticed by mass tourism. That situation will likely remain for the foreseeable future.

Now if you are talking about a 'nature preserve', Belarus is a great example. A closed off society with fabulous unspoiled, feminine women. A much more softer and orderly version of provincial Russia.

Belarus has gotten significantly less foreigner friendly since the crisis finished. Until there is another crisis, I will not be returning.
(This post was last modified: 11-25-2013, 12:57 AM by Astraeos.)
11-25-2013, 12:55 AM
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Partisan Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Ukraine rejects EU
(11-25-2013, 12:55 AM)Astraeos Wrote:
(11-23-2013, 12:10 AM)Partisan Wrote:
(11-22-2013, 11:30 PM)Astraeos Wrote: Interesting.

This will help preserve Ukraine just like a nature preserve. Any thoughts?

I don't think it was ever in the pipeline (pardon the pun). Ukraine has and will always be within Moscow's sphere of influence. There's just too much commonality between the two, be it linguistic, religious, cultural, political and economic. Not to mention Sevastopol which is the home of Russia's Black Sea Fleet. There was no way that Russia would allow Ukraine to break away. Georgia tried it back in late summer 2008 and received an unmerciful spanking.

Nature preserve? Ukraine has been the destination of sex tourists for the past 20 years and since 2005 that flow has turned into a flood. Euro 2012 opened the place up internationally so it is now well exposed with a noticeable Western feel to the place especially in Kiev where all life seems to gravitate from. However with Kiev rejecting Brussels' overtures it will (like Serbia) be straddling two horses, EU and the East. Kiev and especially Odessa have always had an international/cosmopolitan feel but the provinces are largely untapped and go unnoticed by mass tourism. That situation will likely remain for the foreseeable future.

Now if you are talking about a 'nature preserve', Belarus is a great example. A closed off society with fabulous unspoiled, feminine women. A much more softer and orderly version of provincial Russia.

Belarus has gotten significantly less foreigner friendly since the crisis finished. Until there is another crisis, I will not be returning.

I find it hard to believe that a place can become 'less foreigner friendly' as you put it in the space of a very short time. Thats a bit of a generalised statement to make. Are you saying that Belarusians were rude bastards before the crisis and have reverted to being so right now?

My interaction with them has been very positive to say the least. More friendlier and outgoing than Russians.

11-25-2013, 04:48 AM
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Shanked Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Ukraine rejects EU
Astraeos just doesn't want other people visiting Big Grin
11-25-2013, 10:32 AM
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Post: #11
RE: Ukraine rejects EU
I don't think Ukraine to the EU is going to happen with this current administration in. They're adamant on Yulia Tymoshenko being cast as a traitor and a criminal. The government still works very much like a kleptocracy, as are many of the governments in the east, and depending on which side you stand on, Tymoshenko is either wrongly persecuted or rightfully placed in jail. I don't normally like talking politics because it is highly debatable, but from my research, Tymoshenko was clearly a threat to the establishment and the EU has acknowledged as much.

I think one of the reasons Yanukovych has rejected such a deal is because he would have to exonerate Tymoshenko. This could cause chaos in Ukraine. For one, acquitting Tymoshenko would be an admission of fraud for the government. Such a maneuver would de-legitimatize the government and Yanukovych could lose some of his supports. As we have seen regarding the Orange revolution, most Ukrainians seem fed up with the establishment and this would be adding fuel to the fire.

Honestly, though. Not joining the EU is in Ukraine's best interest if they play their cards right. EU wanted to control of Russian pipelines as energy is EUs biggest concern right now and Ukraine wanted some of free money in forms of subsidies (CAP - Common Agricultural Policy). Sure, it cannot be boiled down to these two things, but it is the main premise.

Perhaps the best thing for Ukraine is to take a page out of the former Yugoslavia's book. If you remember correctly during the Cold War, Yugoslavia was part of the 3rd bloc. Yugoslavia did not align specifically with the Soviets or the United States, instead they received ridiculously favorable trade deals from both. This isn't the cold war, but Russia is losing a lot of it's political mite in the region; Ukraine could play both sides.

As of 2008, Ukraine is a candidate to join NATO, that is pretty huge. Part of Yuoglsavia's downfall, amongst other things, was their relentless spending on military. Despite a political economy set up to fail, their trade deals were arguably kept the country going. Ukraine would not necessarily have to spend all that money on defense if their in NATO, so they focus their attention on other emerging sectors, something Yugoslavia failed to do.
11-25-2013, 01:06 PM
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Astraeos Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Ukraine rejects EU
(11-25-2013, 04:48 AM)Partisan Wrote:
(11-25-2013, 12:55 AM)Astraeos Wrote:
(11-23-2013, 12:10 AM)Partisan Wrote:
(11-22-2013, 11:30 PM)Astraeos Wrote: Interesting.

This will help preserve Ukraine just like a nature preserve. Any thoughts?

I don't think it was ever in the pipeline (pardon the pun). Ukraine has and will always be within Moscow's sphere of influence. There's just too much commonality between the two, be it linguistic, religious, cultural, political and economic. Not to mention Sevastopol which is the home of Russia's Black Sea Fleet. There was no way that Russia would allow Ukraine to break away. Georgia tried it back in late summer 2008 and received an unmerciful spanking.

Nature preserve? Ukraine has been the destination of sex tourists for the past 20 years and since 2005 that flow has turned into a flood. Euro 2012 opened the place up internationally so it is now well exposed with a noticeable Western feel to the place especially in Kiev where all life seems to gravitate from. However with Kiev rejecting Brussels' overtures it will (like Serbia) be straddling two horses, EU and the East. Kiev and especially Odessa have always had an international/cosmopolitan feel but the provinces are largely untapped and go unnoticed by mass tourism. That situation will likely remain for the foreseeable future.

Now if you are talking about a 'nature preserve', Belarus is a great example. A closed off society with fabulous unspoiled, feminine women. A much more softer and orderly version of provincial Russia.

Belarus has gotten significantly less foreigner friendly since the crisis finished. Until there is another crisis, I will not be returning.

I find it hard to believe that a place can become 'less foreigner friendly' as you put it in the space of a very short time. Thats a bit of a generalised statement to make. Are you saying that Belarusians were rude bastards before the crisis and have reverted to being so right now?

My interaction with them has been very positive to say the least. More friendlier and outgoing than Russians.

Thats exactly my point, as unlikely as it seems.

There is a reason Belarus is not on the love tourism map.

Seriously, its worth a visit, I agree, but its not a long term place.

Re:Yugoslavia, they had geography to give them a choice to remain neutral. Ukraine will have to go either West or East eventually, and it looks like time is up.


(This post was last modified: 11-25-2013, 02:56 PM by Astraeos.)
11-25-2013, 02:54 PM
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The Realness Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Ukraine rejects EU
yesterdays protests sure dont make it easy for the current administration but it sure gives them more bargaining chips. In kiev over 100k heads showed up to protest, and there were similar rallies in most other big ukrainian cities.

either way, i dont see yanukovich releasing that slut. I've been balls deep following ukrainian politics since 2004 and dont believe the hype. Yes, tymoshenko was put in jail for personal gain of the president but she is far from being an angel. Shit, she may even be a bigger corrupt thief than the current preezy, she just knows how to cover it well, where this guy just grabs with no remorse. So i dont see him letting her out. if EU drops that pre-requisite today, maybe he can still sign the deal on nov 28th
11-26-2013, 12:59 AM
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Post: #14
RE: Ukraine rejects EU
(11-26-2013, 12:59 AM)The Realness Wrote: yesterdays protests sure dont make it easy for the current administration but it sure gives them more bargaining chips. In kiev over 100k heads showed up to protest, and there were similar rallies in most other big ukrainian cities.

either way, i dont see yanukovich releasing that slut. I've been balls deep following ukrainian politics since 2004 and dont believe the hype. Yes, tymoshenko was put in jail for personal gain of the president but she is far from being an angel. Shit, she may even be a bigger corrupt thief than the current preezy, she just knows how to cover it well, where this guy just grabs with no remorse. So i dont see him letting her out. if EU drops that pre-requisite today, maybe he can still sign the deal on nov 28th

As an American, I have no clue what attracts me so much to Ukrainian politics, but I always find it fascinating to hear people's opinions on Tymoshenko. The opinions are always on contrasting ends of the spectrum. She is such polarizing figure in Ukraine that Ukraine has turned their back on the EU. That's amazing.
11-26-2013, 04:33 AM
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RE: Ukraine rejects EU
(11-26-2013, 04:33 AM)Don Wrote:
(11-26-2013, 12:59 AM)The Realness Wrote: yesterdays protests sure dont make it easy for the current administration but it sure gives them more bargaining chips. In kiev over 100k heads showed up to protest, and there were similar rallies in most other big ukrainian cities.

either way, i dont see yanukovich releasing that slut. I've been balls deep following ukrainian politics since 2004 and dont believe the hype. Yes, tymoshenko was put in jail for personal gain of the president but she is far from being an angel. Shit, she may even be a bigger corrupt thief than the current preezy, she just knows how to cover it well, where this guy just grabs with no remorse. So i dont see him letting her out. if EU drops that pre-requisite today, maybe he can still sign the deal on nov 28th

As an American, I have no clue what attracts me so much to Ukrainian politics, but I always find it fascinating to hear people's opinions on Tymoshenko. The opinions are always on contrasting ends of the spectrum. She is such polarizing figure in Ukraine that Ukraine has turned their back on the EU. That's amazing.

Im ukrainian and believe me i know that slut well. only reason the west likes her is because she sucked off the right people and she is very charismatic (much like Obama). if you google the "lazarenko" trial in the states you can gain a bit more insight about how loaded she is. and thats not from hard work. lol. like all oligarchs today, she made her money illegally privatizing government energy factories after the fall of soviet union.

in a way, i blame all this on her because after the orange revolution when yuschenko came to power, he made the big mistake of appointing her the PM and she fucked his shit up hard. He had to fire her (aka dissolve the parliament) twice and this cut throat bitch kept stabbing him in the back, only with her motives for presidency in mind. she even signed the worst gas deal in history with russia.... and its a shame because yuschenko, depsite being a pushover is actually a true ukrainian, unlike 90% of the politicians there now(fukin russians). Point is, people expected yuschenko to be this mythical savior of the country which he tried but she kept putting road blocks for him so after his term he didnt really get shit done. So now in 2009 this bitch was the main candidate for election vs yanukovich....and she actually would've won but Yuschenko was so pissed at her, he asked the people that would be voting for him to vote for Yanukovich instead.

and here we are....

and if were talking about present day, i actually want to see her in jail AT LEAST until after the elections in 2015 because then at least there is a chance that my man Klitschko will win it(very unlikely due to vote rigging)...if she is let out now, almost certain she gets elected in 2015,...and thats like having a female version of Yanukovich, except she is more willing for closer EU integration
11-26-2013, 07:21 AM
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