Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Ukraine rejects EU
Author Message
[-]
  •
deb auchery Offline
Banned

Posts: 2,027
Joined: Aug 2012
Ukraine
Post: #31
RE: Ukraine rejects EU
There was big protests today in Lviv, I was rudely awakened by them marching past my window shouting, I figured something must have happened in Kiev the previous night, which was true as the Police cleared independence square.

I'm also neutral on this situation here, I'm not Ukrainian and I don't know what it's like to live in such a country where there are such limited opportunities for young people. I can see both sides of the story, Yanukovich rejected the deal as the Russian deal being offered was way more lucrative, and also joining the European agreement would mean damaging Ukraine's trade with Russia, and the Russian market will get flooded with European goods.

But I also understand that most people think there is no future with Ukraine have a closer association with Russia, and that they want to be out of the corrupt soviet system and into Europe.

Ukraine might geographically be Europeans, but there mindset is a million miles away especially in Lviv, people in Lviv are the most Soviet minded people I have met in the whole of Ukraine.

I think they should just have a referendum on that matter, and then let it be decided once and for all.

Protests in Lviv have been going on for a month now, getting annoying to be honest.
12-12-2013, 06:47 AM
Find Reply
[-]
  •
Don
Unregistered

 
Post: #32
RE: Ukraine rejects EU
I fucking knew it.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25345468

"Ukraine's President Viktor Yanukovych intends to sign a deal on closer EU ties after all, EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton has told reporters."

I am giving Yanukovych a gold medal. Looks like he is taking a page out of Marshal Tito's playbook and playing the Russians off the Western states...pretty savvy move. I knew as soon as Yanukovych began talking to Russia he was going to use that as leverage.

Yanukovych cited the reasons why talks failed in the first place was because they could not sacrifice trade with Russia. I definitely believe this is to be true but also I believe he could not afford to let Tymoshenko free, either.

This could end up being a great deal for Ukraine if they are able to get benefits from both sides still. However this could be all for not. The government is still largely a kleptocracy, so how they manage new funds will be crucial
12-13-2013, 01:43 AM
Reply
[-]
  •
William Offline
Lieutenant
*****

Posts: 339
Joined: Sep 2013
Reputation: 5
Afghanistan
Post: #33
RE: Ukraine rejects EU
This happened about a week ago, Yanukovych scored a 3 + 6 billion dollar deal with the Chinese.



12-13-2013, 02:32 AM
Find Reply
[-]
  •
The Realness Offline
Lieutenant
*****

Posts: 534
Joined: Jan 2013
Reputation: 2
Post: #34
RE: Ukraine rejects EU
(12-12-2013, 06:47 AM)deb auchery Wrote: Ukraine might geographically be Europeans, but there mindset is a million miles away especially in Lviv, people in Lviv are the most Soviet minded people I have met in the whole of Ukraine.

I think they should just have a referendum on that matter, and then let it be decided once and for all.

How do you figure lviv people are most soviet minded? And what do you define as soviet minded??

Referendum or any election process in one of the worlds most corrupt countries is, well.....i think you get the point. authorities will swing it in any direction they want. That is how their parliament regained the majority in last years election
(12-13-2013, 01:43 AM)Don Wrote: I fucking knew it.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25345468

"Ukraine's President Viktor Yanukovych intends to sign a deal on closer EU ties after all, EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton has told reporters."

I am giving Yanukovych a gold medal. Looks like he is taking a page out of Marshal Tito's playbook and playing the Russians off the Western states...pretty savvy move. I knew as soon as Yanukovych began talking to Russia he was going to use that as leverage.

Yanukovych cited the reasons why talks failed in the first place was because they could not sacrifice trade with Russia. I definitely believe this is to be true but also I believe he could not afford to let Tymoshenko free, either.

This could end up being a great deal for Ukraine if they are able to get benefits from both sides still. However this could be all for not. The government is still largely a kleptocracy, so how they manage new funds will be crucial

Don, no disrespect but you are very far from the truth on this. Let me explain.

Yanukovich said he was going to sign Association Agreement (AA) with EU up until the last second was because he wanted to put the pressure on Putin, knowing Putin would do anything for that not to happen. This worked for him because putin agreed to reduce gas prices by half, and give yanuk billions into his personal bank account. So in that regard, yes he is smart. But dont think for a second he wanted to sign with EU in the first place. Not because of the tymoshenko release issue, but because he knows he wont get re elected in 2015 if Ukraine is in close path with EU. And believe it or not, it's not really widely said on the news, but i know through my sources close to one ukrainian politician that during the EU Summit in Vilnius, EU even agreed to sign the papers WITHOUT TYMOSHENKO RELEASE. Thats right!!! And he still said no bcuz to him its all about his pockets not the countries interests.

And i read that article where, now he claims he intended to sign with EU. Thats BS. His back is literally to the wall now, he hopes that will ease up some protests, but the protesters want his head now, its not even about the EU anymore so much. The main for them RIGHT NOW , is Yanuk and his government to roll. Then EU, with new regime.

@ william

Yea the country needs about 10-15 billion to stay afloat so he is fishing for money hard. This is good for economy, but in my opinion it would be better for us, as potential investors, and the protesters if economy crashed. Truth is it will crash anyway, but real reforms are needed and thats where the problem lies
(This post was last modified: 12-13-2013, 03:05 AM by The Realness.)
12-13-2013, 02:57 AM
Find Reply
[-]
  •
Vorkuta Offline
Lieutenant
*****

Posts: 282
Joined: Feb 2012
Reputation: 2
Afghanistan
Post: #35
RE: Ukraine rejects EU
What is Klitschko all about politically? What does he stand for, anyone know?

The guy is charismatic, a sporting legend, intelligent, speaks Ukrainian, and doesn't have his hands dirty from dodgy energy deals. Seems like a winning ticket to me in a country where people must be jaded with the usual suspects.

Does he have any chance in 2015?
12-13-2013, 03:58 AM
Find Reply
[-]
  •
The Realness Offline
Lieutenant
*****

Posts: 534
Joined: Jan 2013
Reputation: 2
Post: #36
RE: Ukraine rejects EU
(12-13-2013, 03:58 AM)Vorkuta Wrote: What is Klitschko all about politically? What does he stand for, anyone know?

The guy is charismatic, a sporting legend, intelligent, speaks Ukrainian, and doesn't have his hands dirty from dodgy energy deals. Seems like a winning ticket to me in a country where people must be jaded with the usual suspects.

Does he have any chance in 2015?

Nobody knows how Klitschko REALLY is but he appears to have his head on right. To me he is best candidate by far because

1. He grew up in the west
2. He is very strict
3. He is a hard worker
4. He is no Push over
5. He is already rich so money is not the driving factor.

He doesnt have a dodgy past which is most important because there is no one to blackmail him on shit. There are however rumors his party is being finances by Firtash, who is a billionaire having his hands in various industries in Ukraine. To me it doesnt mean shit, its just the way of the world. Money controls politics everywhere, even in the States. All that means is Klitscho will be favorable to him if in power, which is not a bad thing. He does lack political experience but give him a few years and he will be polished by experts. And he is by far the best possible outcome for Ukraine as a whole judging by who is out there right now.

Worst case after current preezy: Tymoshenko. Yes, really. That is one crooked bitch
Forgot one last thing,

Assuming they don't let Tymoshenko out of jail in time to Run for president, Yes he is a clear cut winner as president right now. There is nobody else who can compete with him.

If tymoshenko runs against him, she may very well win bcuz she got that jailed sympathetic factor on her side and she knows how to speak, despite people knowing she is not far off from Yanukovich
(This post was last modified: 12-13-2013, 05:11 AM by The Realness.)
12-13-2013, 05:09 AM
Find Reply
[-]
  •
Don
Unregistered

 
Post: #37
RE: Ukraine rejects EU
(12-13-2013, 02:57 AM)The Realness Wrote: Don, no disrespect but you are very far from the truth on this. Let me explain.

Yanukovich said he was going to sign Association Agreement (AA) with EU up until the last second was because he wanted to put the pressure on Putin, knowing Putin would do anything for that not to happen. This worked for him because putin agreed to reduce gas prices by half, and give yanuk billions into his personal bank account. So in that regard, yes he is smart. But dont think for a second he wanted to sign with EU in the first place. Not because of the tymoshenko release issue, but because he knows he wont get re elected in 2015 if Ukraine is in close path with EU. And believe it or not, it's not really widely said on the news, but i know through my sources close to one ukrainian politician that during the EU Summit in Vilnius, EU even agreed to sign the papers WITHOUT TYMOSHENKO RELEASE. Thats right!!! And he still said no bcuz to him its all about his pockets not the countries interests.

And i read that article where, now he claims he intended to sign with EU. Thats BS. His back is literally to the wall now, he hopes that will ease up some protests, but the protesters want his head now, its not even about the EU anymore so much. The main for them RIGHT NOW , is Yanuk and his government to roll. Then EU, with new regime.

How do you figure he won't get reelected if Ukraine aligns with the EU? It seems like quite the opposite given the large number of demonstrators. The last time Ukrainians revolted in this fashion there was change at the guard, remember Viktor Yushchenko? It seems to be that if Yanukovych is unwilling to sign an AA then he will most certainly be out of the job...that is if there is no corruption at the polls....

Yanukovych could still hammer out a deal between the EU while benefiting (if even benefiting personally) from trade with Russia. He can go back and forth all he wants between the two.

Well, it is probably not talked about on the news because Ukraine is an embarrassment as it pertains to freedom of the press. They rank right around with many Islamic countries in that regard.

12-13-2013, 09:33 AM
Reply
[-]
  •
The Realness Offline
Lieutenant
*****

Posts: 534
Joined: Jan 2013
Reputation: 2
Post: #38
RE: Ukraine rejects EU
@ DON

he wont get re-elected if he signs with EU because now he be under the radar more and he will actually have to answer to higher to EU. Hence he wont be able to heavily rig votes, like he did during last years parliamentary election to retair his governments majority. Even before this revolution started he was behing in the polls like 58 to 42 to Klitschko.


What happened in 2004 is different. And the only reason Yuschenko didnt get re-elected in 2010 is because people expected him to part the sea, and while he did do much good for the country, that cunt Tymoshenko kept stabbing him in the back with her own presidential agendas for 2010." She made his work hell. Otherwise he is the best president ukraine has had since independence, but the bar was just set way too high for him.
12-14-2013, 02:07 AM
Find Reply
[-] The following 2 users Like Astraeos's post:
  • Shanked, Vorkuta
Astraeos Offline
Lieutenant
*****

Posts: 278
Joined: Feb 2013
Reputation: 4
Post: #39
RE: Ukraine rejects EU
An interesting blog post to give an idea of the intense emotions involved in this situation:





----------------------------------------------------------------------------------



You’re In Ukraine, So Don’t You Dare Speak Russian To Me
http://www.mavericktraveler.com/topics/travel/ukraine/
By Maverick — 35 Comments
It was a chilly midsummer’s morning as I exited the sterile train station and found myself in the country where I was born but never returned to in more than twenty-two years: Ukraine.

I was in the city of Lvov (Lviv in Ukrainian), arguably the most scenic of all Ukrainian cities. Lvov doesn’t look much like the rest of Ukraine – it’s clean, lacks the Communist-era housing blocks, and has more of a Central European feel. In fact, you’d be hard-pressed to distinguish it from the Polish towns across the border, not far away.

After taking a shower and freshening up, I sent my friend, who was in Kiev, a quick text notifying him that I was already in Lvov and would be in Kiev soon. He welcomed me to Ukraine and, not wanting me to spend my time alone, mentioned that he might know someone in Lvov to show me around.

I went out for a scroll to the main park not far from the hotel. I took in the fresh Ukrainian air, looked at families enjoying a beautiful summer’s day, and felt completely at ease.

And what an ecstatic feeling it was.

After visiting over fifty-five countries and trying very hard to blend in as a local by living in six more, I was ready to just enjoy myself in the country of my birth.

There was no need to learn a new culture, a new language, and new customs. I can just be myself for the first time in many years. Or so I thought.

An hour into my leisurely stroll, I received a text message. It was Andrei, my buddy’s friend. He was born and raised here, and had time to meet me and show me around for few hours.

We arranged to meet in front of a well-known monument, a statue dedicated to an important Ukrainian writer, Taras Shevchenko.

Andrei, who was 24 years old, was already waiting for me when I arrived.

I went up to him and greeted him in Russian. Andrei studied me carefully before finally responding in Ukrainian.

This was the first time in my life that I heard the Ukrainian language.

I shrugged and told him that I don’t speak Ukrainian and didn’t understand what he said.

And that’s where the problems began.

But, first, allow me to give you a little introduction to my country.

***
When Ukraine was incorporated into Soviet Union, Russian language became the main language in all spheres of public life. Russian became a prerequisite for admission to higher education and better job occupations. It was also made a compulsory subject in all Ukrainian schools.

Ukrainian language, like all primary languages of the republics, was relegated to a secondary status. After Soviet Union collapsed, former republics became independent countries and their own languages became official again: Lithuanian became the official language of Lithuania; Latvian in Latvia; and, unsurprisingly, Estonian in Estonia.

In Ukraine, however, things weren’t so simple.

Because Ukraine was heavily Russified, Russian is still – even today — the de facto language in all major cities. Russian is spoken everywhere: in restaurants, stores, businesses, even inside homes. Aside from a minor accent, you’d be hard pressed to realize that you’re not in Russia, but in another country with its own official language.

Take me, for example: even though I was born in Ukraine, in the region where I was born Russian was the only spoken language. In many ways I’m more Russian than Ukrainian: I read Dostoyevsky instead of Shevchenko, and enjoy Russian TV more than Ukrainian.

During my stay in Kiev the only times I heard Ukrainian was when they announced the next stop on the metro; the people on the trains always spoke in Russian.

***
“I’m Ukrainian and don’t want to speak the language of the enemy,” Andrei condescendingly answered in English.

I knew that he — like everyone else in Ukraine — spoke fluent Russian, but it seemed that avoiding the language of “the enemy” was more important than effortless communication with another Ukrainian.

Also, like all Ukrainians, his English was poor but bearable. In order to be understood, I had to slow down my speech and use simple phrases and words, avoiding slang where possible.

“I understand, but I’m sure it’s easier for us to communicate in Russian rather than in English,” I threw in some logic in an attempt to sway his mind.

Suddenly he stopped, looked me right in the eye and asked, “Are you Ukrainian?”

I rolled my eyes.

“Yes, I was born here.”

“Where?”

“In the South.”

Even though I didn’t need to be putting up with interrogation, he was a friend of a friend, so I felt obliged to at least see this through.

“And your parents?”

“Same. And my grandparents too.”

“Then, why don’t you speak Ukrainian?”

“Because when I lived there the only spoken language was Russian. Anything else you need to know?”

“Just remember that you’re in Ukraine — not Russia — so don’t speak Russian here,” he seemed satisfied with my answers but still needed to reinforce his point.

Long before deciding to visit Ukraine, others warned me about people like this, especially from this region.

During Soviet times it was common for Russian speakers to be flatly ignored, but ever since the collapse things have greatly improved. Money was more important than petty nationalism, and most of it came from rich Russian tourists or Ukrainians from predominantly Russian-speaking parts.

Where else in the world can one’s identity be scrutinized so much? A Colombian returning to Colombia after living abroad would be greeted with open arms. Same for Brazilian or pretty much any nationality.

Not in Ukraine.

An hour into the tour we passed another stature of Shevchenko, Ukraine’s most famous writer and poet.

After explaining a bit about the statue he switched topics and decided to tell me a story.

“Once there was a young woman and she fell in love with a Russian soldier. Then she had a baby. But the soldier didn’t want to do anything with her, so he left her. That’s why I hate Russians and will never speak Russian.”

Andrei probably used up all his English knowledge telling the story.

“How do you know this?” I was curious who was feeding him this propaganda.

“Shevchenko wrote about this and besides everyone says it’s true,” Andrei confidently answered in his broken English.

I stood there speechless. I froze, my mind was utterly blank. I was face to face with prejudice on a level that I haven’t really experienced during my travels.

I’ve seen rivalries between Argentinians and Brazilians; between Mexicans and Guatemalans; between French and English. Oh, and maybe Colombians don’t like Venezuelans. But I’ve never met a Brazilian who hated Argentinians so hard it made his blood boil. Those were all trivial compared with what I was dealing here.

I also didn’t know what to feel. I didn’t know whether to be angry or have pity for this poor excuse for a human being who possessed so much hate for the mighty neighbor in the north and heck knows whom else.

I understood that I was in Ukraine and relations with Russia weren’t always the best.

75-year-old bitter old man who had to fight the Russians? Sure, that’s understandable.

24-year-old seemingly normal and intelligent young man? Didn’t make much sense.

I had come face-to-face with such hate not in USA, not in some random South American country, but in my own homeland. Maybe it wasn’t my country anymore. I sure didn’t feel welcome.

For the rest of my stay in Lvov, I made sure to speak Russian everywhere – in restaurants, cafes, and bars. I enjoyed it; it made me feel superior on some superficial level.

But the real gratification came when I left this unwelcoming region for the capital.

At last, things were how I imagined them to be: the people were courteous and intelligent, and the only thing that mattered was finding a common language for interaction – regardless whether it was Ukrainian, Russian, or even, in some rare cases, English.

Oh, and the women aren’t even that pretty in Western Ukraine – the best looking ones come from the South, not very far from where this “Ukrainian” was born.
(This post was last modified: 12-14-2013, 03:46 AM by Astraeos.)
12-14-2013, 03:46 AM
Find Reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes The Realness's post:
  • Shanked
The Realness Offline
Lieutenant
*****

Posts: 534
Joined: Jan 2013
Reputation: 2
Post: #40
RE: Ukraine rejects EU
this guy sounds like a whiny bitch
12-14-2013, 05:22 AM
Find Reply
[-] The following 3 users Like Astraeos's post:
  • Shanked, The Realness, Vorkuta
Astraeos Offline
Lieutenant
*****

Posts: 278
Joined: Feb 2013
Reputation: 4
Post: #41
RE: Ukraine rejects EU
Western Diplomats Are Going to Disappoint Ukraine’s Protesters

Read more: Ukraine: Western Diplomats Will Likely Disappoint Kiev's Protesters | TIME.com http://world.time.com/2013/12/13/western...z2nOyajnHV

http://world.time.com/2013/12/13/western...rotesters/

The hand of U.S. diplomacy swept down over Ukraine this week with an odd bit of American largesse – a plastic bag of bread. Victoria Nuland, the Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs, bore the bag on Wednesday into the crowd of protesters camped out in the middle of the capital, Kiev. As her circle of body guards parted, Nuland held it out to an elderly demonstrator in a big blue parka. “Good to see you!” the diplomat chirped. “We’re here from America. Would you like some bread?” Smiling politely, the woman demurred, took a step backward and waved the generosity away.

It was not exactly the kind of help Ukraine needs right now. Over the past two weeks, hundreds of thousands of demonstrators have swarmed the streets of Kiev, demanding that their government begin integrating with the West. What sparked their protests was the state’s decision last month to turn instead toward Russia, backing away from a trade and cooperation deal with the E.U. Since then, top Western diplomats have come out to show their support for the demonstrators. First came the German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle, who toured the epicenter of the protests with Ukraine’s opposition leaders, including the heavyweight boxing champion Vitali Klitschko. Then came Catherine Ashton, the E.U.’s foreign policy chief, and finally Nuland arrived with her loaves of soft power.

But apart from these gestures, it is far from clear whether the West is willing or able to pull Ukraine out of its ongoing crisis. “It’s a false promise,” says Stephen Szabo, the head of the Transatlantic Academy, a policy research center based in Washington. “It’s going to lead to disillusionment in Ukraine.”

In the coming months, Ukraine faces some of the toughest economic times in its history, and the West’s proposed rescue package comes with some very painful strings attached. An emergency loan worth $17 billion from the International Monetary Fund, a global lender backed mostly by the U.S. and Europe, would force drastic reforms on the Ukrainian economy. By accepting the loan, the government would commit to devaluing its currency, slashing its budget and cutting subsidies on the price of natural gas for all but its poorest citizens. That would lead to a sharp spike in the cost of basic goods, including the bread that Nuland brought to the square on Wednesday.

For President Viktor Yanukovych, who is up for reelection in just over a year, these measures would amount to political suicide. On his watch, the economy has already fallen into a yearlong recession, pushed down by weak demand in Europe for Ukrainian exports, and in August, Russia made matters worse by cutting off trade with Ukraine as punishment for its drift toward the West. Squeezed from all sides, Yanukovych then turned away at the last minute from the E.U. integration deal, thus putting all aid from the IMF on hold.

On Thursday, as the pro-E.U. protests showed no sign of easing in Kiev, his government seemed to make another U-turn. It sent a delegation to Brussels to resume cooperation talks with the E.U., whose commissioner for integration, Stefan Fuele, said afterward that the E.U. would provide “more and more” assistance to top up the aid from the IMF. Fuele did not, however, provide any specific figures. So it remains to be seen whether Europe’s generosity can match Ukrainian needs. To save the country from defaulting on its debts, the government says it requires more than $20 billion just to pay off its immediate obligations, including at least $2 billion owed to Russia for natural gas supplies. Over the next seven years, Ukraine would need more than $200 billion to fund the reforms the E.U. is demanding, according to Prime Minister Mykola Azarov. And there is no way the E.U. would pony up anywhere near that kind of money, especially considering Ukraine’s reputation for corruption. “It’s a black hole,” says Stefan Meister, a Ukraine expert at the European Council on Foreign Relations. “If you put money into it, half of it ends up in secret accounts somewhere in Switzerland.”

No one understands that better than Russia, which has so far thought better than to offer Ukraine any kind of rescue package. “It’s about the wisdom of Russia,” says Dmitri Trenin, the head the Carnegie Center think tank in Moscow. “The wisdom of Russia will be tested by Russia staying on the sidelines.” But for the West, he says, it’s too late for that. The diplomats joining the protests in Kiev have already signaled to the Ukrainian people that the West is coming to the rescue, Trenin says, “so something will have to be done.” But because of the enormity of Ukraine’s financial needs, the West cannot possibly do enough. So as the economy falls apart in the coming months, “the European Union will have to bear the brunt of resentment in Ukraine.”

But could the West have acted any differently? Could they have simply ignored the protests? Since the onset of the European financial crisis, talk of E.U. members pulling out of the bloc have become a lot more common than countries wanting to join. So these demonstrations gave the E.U. a badly needed ego boost. “The Europeans have been kind of inward-looking, even somewhat cynical about European membership and European values,” says William Taylor, the former U.S. ambassador in Ukraine. So when they looked over at the crowds in Kiev waving E.U. flags, the Europeans realized that “these guys really put a high premium on the things we have,” Taylor says. “And hey, maybe we should take inspiration from these Ukrainians.”

But taking inspiration and posing for pictures is one thing. Offering membership and financial bailouts is another. So far, no one is inviting Ukraine to join the E.U., which has had enough trouble in the last few years absorbing the troubled economies of Romania and Bulgaria. This week, the rotating presidency of the E.U. went from Lithuania, which has championed Ukraine’s integration with Europe, to the debt-wracked nation of Greece, which has little patience for charity cases other than its own. So in the next few months, just as Ukraine edges toward financial ruin, the concern of its western neighbors will likely fade away.

Kiev’s Pro-West Protests Paralyze Ukraine



Read more: Ukraine: Western Diplomats Will Likely Disappoint Kiev's Protesters | TIME.com http://world.time.com/2013/12/13/western...z2nOyOunnT
(This post was last modified: 12-14-2013, 09:48 AM by Astraeos.)
12-14-2013, 09:47 AM
Find Reply
[-]
  •
William Offline
Lieutenant
*****

Posts: 339
Joined: Sep 2013
Reputation: 5
Afghanistan
Post: #42
RE: Ukraine rejects EU
Ukrainian's currency bounced back to 8.23 per dollar. Perhaps the reason is related to this:

Putin has agreed to give Ukraine a discount of 10 billion dollars in natural gas for next year. That comes to $220 per Ukrainian citizen (nearly a month's wage here) -- if the credit trickles down to Ukrainian citizens.

Additionally, Russia will buy $15 billion in Ukrainian bonds. Deb--what's your take on this? Are you still expecting Ukraine's currency to crash?




(This post was last modified: 12-21-2013, 09:50 PM by William.)
12-21-2013, 09:46 PM
Find Reply
[-]
  •
timmyjack Offline
Boatswain
****

Posts: 144
Joined: Sep 2012
Reputation: 2
Post: #43
RE: Ukraine rejects EU
Them nationalistic Ukrainians are dumb. I guess if us Americans pretended to be them we should stop speaking English since we aren't England? I know lets make some native American indian language our national language.
what is sad is that the WEST actually is trying to manipulate Ukraine too much. For gods sake they by bloodline are the same as Russians...its just those former polish cities in Western Ukraine that thinks of Russia as an enemy. Sure Russians caused a famine..but they killed themselves as well. The Western Ukrainians were very harsh against the Jewish people in the west and by the same token should Jews consider Ukraine an enemy..especially Israel.
(This post was last modified: 12-22-2013, 07:55 AM by timmyjack.)
12-22-2013, 07:30 AM
Find Reply
[-]
  •
Astraeos Offline
Lieutenant
*****

Posts: 278
Joined: Feb 2013
Reputation: 4
Post: #44
RE: Ukraine rejects EU
I think these protests will fizzle, Russia just bought Ukraine.
Maybe the next election will be interesting to watch...but most likely well controlled.
12-24-2013, 01:19 AM
Find Reply
[-]
  •
The Realness Offline
Lieutenant
*****

Posts: 534
Joined: Jan 2013
Reputation: 2
Post: #45
RE: Ukraine rejects EU
(12-24-2013, 01:19 AM)Astraeos Wrote: I think these protests will fizzle, Russia just bought Ukraine.
Maybe the next election will be interesting to watch...but most likely well controlled.

if they don't get new people in office now, the "elections" in 2015 will be just a formality. During these protests last week there were re-elections for 5 parliamentary seats and the current regime rigged it hardcore. that isn't surprising but to do that while in panic mode due to protests, tells u what 2015 elections will be like if they remain in power
12-24-2013, 01:52 AM
Find Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)