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Flagging Confusion
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Broon Offline
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Post: #1
Flagging Confusion
Hello Gentlemen, hope all is well.

I've been quiet on here for a few weeks because I've had some problems with university and could potentially interrupt my trip to Croatia, though I may still go anyway as I've heard the place is cool.

However, this is not the cause for my post. I've recently finished reading Atlas Al and The Hunger's 'Destination Foreignication' (an excellent, informative and enlightening read) and I have come across a question which I would like to raise for the forum.

Al authors a chapter in the book regarding capturing the British flag and the problems that come with it. As you're all aware Britain consists of the four home nations (Scotland, England, N.Ireland and Wales) plus other British Isles. Atlas notes the difficulties of capturing the British flag as each individual home nation/isle has it's own identity and should they count differently? I myself face a personal dilema as I am British (Scottish Dad, English Mum, raised in Edinburgh) and feel aligned to the Union but I feel more Scottish due to my upbringing, and my dilema is that I have had relations with Scottish (I know that doesn't count) English and Irish females but do they count as individual flags or is it just a solitary flag?

I'm interested in your opinions on how you count British flags and how you think I should count my local flag captures. Also general opinions of British women as they generally get a bad rap compared to the European counterparts.
06-22-2012, 11:09 AM
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007 Game Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Flagging Confusion
Ok, IMO this is how it works - does that country have a sit at the UN general assembly? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nati...l_Assembly) If no - doesn't count as a flag. (unless it's Transnistrian flag, which counts because they have their own currency and because I got it last week!)

But seriously, I'm going with UN Gen Assembly. Why? Because if you don't than there are all kind of cheats. Why Palestinian yes and Quebec no? If you go with a Quebec flag, then why not states flag? Alaska, CA, NY.... it's all down hill from there...

Bottom line: 1) UN Gen Assembly 2) if they have their own currency. Isle of man counts for example. They also have their own parliament!
(This post was last modified: 06-22-2012, 12:17 PM by 007 Game.)
06-22-2012, 12:06 PM
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abc Away
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Post: #3
RE: Flagging Confusion
@The Brown: It sounds like you're more Scottish, so English/Welsh/N. Irish flags count, and then we consider all other hook ups from territories outside of the four home nations as British. Hunger and I don't really think it's fair to claim your own flag which is easy to do anyway.

My opinion on British women: when they're on, they're on, and I love their accents, but for the large majority I'd say... pass.
06-22-2012, 01:13 PM
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Zolo Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Flagging Confusion
I struggle with this one. I'm bias being Irish, so I don't count the N. Irish flag, so therefore I just claim a UK flag --- but few Scots consider themselves British.

Each to their own I guess.
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(This post was last modified: 06-24-2012, 04:40 AM by Zolo.)
06-24-2012, 04:40 AM
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Broon Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Flagging Confusion
Indeed I am more Scottish but do consider myself British, but you'd be surprised at the growth in pro-British support in Scotland recently. We'll never really be right in line with our southern neighbours but with all talk of independence and the fact that Scotland would sink faster than a weighted turd, people are wanting to be 'British' currently for political reasons.

Sorry for bringing politics into the forum, I'm a bit of an anorak for it!

I'm just going to count my dalliances with other Brits as individual flags.

Though added confusion, should I consider the Northern Irish girl as my Irish flag or not? She did seem to related herself closer to Ireland than Britain. Thoughts, particularly from you NN.
06-24-2012, 08:17 AM
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Zolo Offline
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RE: Flagging Confusion
It depends on the girl. The N.I girl I'm seeing considers herself 100% Irish and has an Irish passport, but has lived all her life in the North.

You might meet another N.I girl who is a unionist and considers herself British. Maybe that's a British flag.

In the north you have the choice of both passports, so I guess the passport should determine it.
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06-25-2012, 02:17 AM
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Don
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Post: #7
RE: Flagging Confusion
Greetings. I have a similar problem here. I am banging this one chick who was born in Europe but mostly raised in the states -- where I met her. She says she is Russian but when I asked where she tells me outside Minsk which, as you know, is Belarus. Belarus completed its independence in 91', she was born in 93', thus making her a Belorussian...right?

I have another friend who refers to himself as Russian who was actually born in the Ukraine when the U.S.S.R. occupied it. So he would be Russian and not Ukranian, right?
07-09-2012, 07:15 AM
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Zolo Offline
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RE: Flagging Confusion
If she was raised in the states and spent most of her life there, that's an American flag I'm afraid.
Atlas Al is the flagging expert here, he needs to weigh in.

VOV: That means that Taiwan is the Chinese flag. You can't pick and choose. To recognise the Transnistrian flag and not Taiwan, Kosovo or Palestine makes no sense (unless you're a neo-Zionist or a communist, of course).

The UN general assembly is not the way to go when it comes to flags. International law is better.

"Why Palestinian yes and Quebec no?" Because the majority of states recognise the former. Under the Montevideo criteria, collective recognition has legal implications for statehood even with an imperfect completion of other criteria (Palestine on control of their territory, for example). Similarly, no recognition voids statehood - like tranisitra, dagastan, etc.

The only reason Palestine, Taiwan and Kosova aren't members of the UN is because their bid for memberships have been vetoed the U.S, China, and Russia, respectively. You just need ONE of the five permanent members of the UN security council to say no.

International Law: Montevideo criteria, sound, logical legitimate standards = good.
UNGA membership: 5 veto member control membership based on power politics = not so good.

Naughty Nomad recognises Taiwan, Palestine, and Kosovo as legit flags.

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(This post was last modified: 07-10-2012, 04:09 AM by Zolo.)
07-10-2012, 03:33 AM
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Don
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Post: #9
RE: Flagging Confusion
To be clear, she moved over when she was 8 if that helps Atlas Al
07-10-2012, 03:45 AM
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Zolo Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Flagging Confusion
I've talk to Al about this before - if she moved over before puberty, it doesn't count I'm afraid. Her identity is much more American than Belarussian.
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07-10-2012, 04:16 AM
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abc Away
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Post: #11
RE: Flagging Confusion
@The Don: The Belorussian-born girl you’re banging is most likely more American depending when she moved to the US. Consider this, if she were from a more conservative/strict country in regards to hooking up, you may not have banged the very same girl since Americans aren’t difficult to hook up with.

Re: your friend with Russian parents who was born in Soviet-era Ukraine, what does he consider himself to be… I’m still working on it and will easily take me a while to complete. One of the main issues at hand is that the Soviet Union was a single union of soviet republics and had a single seat at the UN; however, Belarus and Ukraine were a part of the USSR and were also members of the UN.

@NN: International Law is good, but I wouldn’t say better than the UN model for claiming flags. True, there are five permanent members in the Security Council that have veto power. But if the majority of UN member states demand that a region of the world become a member/independent, they’ll probably not veto and go with the wave of support from the other nations.

I'm familiar with the Montevideo Convention of 1933, something I choose not to talk about in Destination Foreignication and FlaggingHeadquarters.com because if I talked about such advanced flagging theories, I’d bore people. But since you asked, I did some digging through my notes…

WHAT CONSTITUTES A CAPTUREABLE FLAG? We must draw the line somewhere to avoid unfair flag claims such as regional, provincial, and other flags. The fairest and easiest way to determine flag status confirmation is to examine the policies laid out by international law makers.

The Montevideo Convention of 1933 was a conference attended by many countries in the Americas before the United Nations existed. According to Encyclopædia Britannica, the Montevideo Convention determined a state was sovereign if it had a permanent population, defined territorial boundaries, a government, and was able to enter into agreements with other states. The Montevideo Convention codified what defines statehood which is now referred to as declarative theory of statehood.
Another definition of statehood is called constitutive theory of statehood, merely requiring one state to recognize another state’s sovereignty to be considered a sovereign state.

The international community doesn’t follow either declarative or constitutive theory, they follow both. The United Nations is that international body that recognizes other countries’ sovereignty. To be considered a UN member state, a country must first exhibit the four prerequisites mentioned in declarative theory of statehood. Constitutive theory of statehood has some merit, but the UN takes it one step further: they require not only one state to recognize another state’s sovereignty; they require a majority of sovereign states to recognize another state’s sovereignty.

You mention Taiwan, Palestine and Kosovo. Taiwan and Palestine are not UN member states, but I believe they’re “loophole flags,” exceptions to the rule. Kosovo on the other hand is not, yet. The autonomous region of Kosovo and Metohija are still under Serbian sovereignty until the UN votes on it. I’m positive they’ll get full independence one day.

If you’ve read this far, don’t think too much about flagging nitty-gritty, just enjoy banging exotic local talent Wink
07-11-2012, 01:14 PM
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Zolo Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Flagging Confusion
"Don’t think too much about flagging nitty-gritty, just enjoy banging exotic local talent."
Haha!

Well said Al, well said. By the way I'm heading over to Stockholm in early Oct, you should pop over for Oslo!
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07-12-2012, 09:30 AM
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Don
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Post: #13
RE: Flagging Confusion
Nice, Al. Yes, my friend from the Ukraine considers himself Russian. He told me he was born in Kiev, however. I ask him, shouldn't that make you Ukrainian to which he replied he doesnt know. He was born before Ukraine obtained their sovereignty. Both the girl and my friend have strong accents.

Al, I see you are leaning towards no flag rather than Belorussian. She was 8 when she came over, 19 now. Racking my brain whether this is a no flag, Belorussian or Russian.
07-12-2012, 05:13 PM
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abc Away
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Post: #14
RE: Flagging Confusion
@NN: sounds cool, when you know the dates let me know, and I’ll keep you posted. Will try to get Hunger out as well.

@Don: Belorussian girl… not leaning towards “no flag”, she’s gotta be something. But I’d have to have a chat with her, pick her brain, to find out what she’d be more.
07-12-2012, 09:37 PM
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007 Game Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Flagging Confusion
@NN - I'm Israeli, and I recognize a Palestinian flag. In fact, it's on the list of "precious" flags I'm after. But N. Ireland? Scotland? No way... sounds like "flag count boosting" to me, but to each his own :-)

Transnistrian flag... their own currency, their own gov, you need to cross a hardcore border... I count it. I'd count Isle of Man too. To me currency is a big one.

Edit - on 2nd thought.... Scotland... why not. If you're English and you feel it's a flag, go for it.

The Transnistrian flag is funny, it's actually 4 flags in one: They consider themselves Transnistrian (flag 1) but actually most of them are Russian (flag 2) but it's actually part of Moldova (flag 3) and what is Moldova? Their flag looks like a Romanian flag (same colors), they speak Romanian ("Moldovan (also Moldavian) is one of the names of the Romanian language as spoken in the Republic of Moldova, where it is an official language") ... part of Romania is even called "Moldova". I don't really understand why it's just not part of Romania. Why is it a country?! So Transnistria = Moldova = Romania ?? (flag 4)

Anyway, this is all just for fun. Not that it matters.

(This post was last modified: 07-13-2012, 10:17 PM by 007 Game.)
07-13-2012, 09:37 PM
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