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WWIII - Russian fighter shot down by NATO
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SpecialEd Offline
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Post: #1
WWIII - Russian fighter shot down by NATO
Anybody catch the downed Russian jet incident? (Bastards shot at the pilots as they parachuted down)

Turkey didn't pull the trigger without Obama's approval. The militants on the ground were Free Syrian Army, the same group we've trained and supplied.

I'd say we're a hop skip away from WWIII.

My prediction: this Thanksgiving...a Turkey is getting roasted.:

Russia (and Putin) has my full-support. If there is a "good guy" in this fight, it's them.
11-25-2015, 11:10 AM
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RE: WWIII - Russian fighter shot down by NATO
Let's quickly put into context that it's never good to be shot down over the villages you are bombing. Personally I can't blame the guys who killed the pilots, Syria is a place where two wrongs definitely make a right at this point in time.

Honestly I can't see Obama being behind this. The majority of the west has thrown the FSA under the bus and are now working with the SDF (basically YPG plus some small secular arab brigades, a useful cover umbrella to stop short of saying we are pro-pkk), and the army/Russia and West/SDF have a sort of cold war going on in that they leave each other alone on the ground. Everyone wants this war done with and provided Assad leaves, the West and Russia can both work to the same script (Assad until elections, Ba'ath institutions remain in place).

The only people who don't want this are Turkey and the Gulf Wahabbis. Turkey has now reignited its "buffer zone" plan (no airstrikes etc south of its border for i think 50km?). This de facto protects the jihadi-controlled border point of Jarabulus from a Kurdish/NATO plane offensive to link up the Kurdish areas all along the Turkish border. Turkey would rather have Jihadi ISIS/Nusra on its border than secular, democratic and liberal Kurds.

Coincidentally, today Nusra (turk-supported, Jihadi AQ franchise) laid siege to the Kurdish mountain area of Afrin. Afrin is disconnected from the rest of Rojava by Jarabulus. Funny that isn't it?

Hopefully it won't be too much more of this shit before Erdogan finds himself burning alive in downtown Ankara.
11-25-2015, 11:32 AM
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SpecialEd Offline
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RE: WWIII - Russian fighter shot down by NATO
(11-25-2015, 11:32 AM)Alex Wrote: Everyone wants this war done with and provided Assad leaves, the West and Russia can both work to the same script (Assad until elections, Ba'ath institutions remain in place).

Yea - I think they're on an entirely different page though. Russia wants Assad to stay. And in fairness, he's the best shot for a stable Syria.

Quote:The only people who don't want this are Turkey and the Gulf Wahabbis.

Or in other words...just America's main allies in the Middle East. No big deal.Wink

Quote:Hopefully it won't be too much more of this shit before Erdogan finds himself burning alive in downtown Ankara.

We won't topple Erdogan. Turkey is too valuable a chess piece. Obama basically commended Erdogan for taking down the Russian fighter, saying it was self-defense.
11-25-2015, 11:49 AM
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Dash Global Offline
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Post: #4
RE: WWIII - Russian fighter shot down by NATO
Assad doesnt want to leave, and frankly I wouldnt leave if I was him. He can without question atleast control the capital and a few strategic points in the country. Life will go on even if most of the country is in shambles and chaos.

I doubt Russia does anything to Turkey. He wants to, but it would cause way more trouble than it's worth.

11-25-2015, 04:10 PM
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Sexiback Offline
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Post: #5
RE: WWIII - Russian fighter shot down by NATO
WWW3? Lel.

Get out. Russia would probably lose an open confrontation to Turkey, let alone NATO without using nuclear weapons. Russia can't do a whole lot. The turks can close down the Bosporus economically crippling Russias trade with most of the goods-producing world.

This was very rash from Turkey, and it this might spell the end of NATO as we know it. There's no way Germany or the Netherlands would come to the help of Turkey if a confrontation started. I have no doubt the Turks told the Russians the next plane that comes into our airspace is going to be engaged, and the Russians didn't take the necessary precautions. Still, 17 seconds, get out, the Turks are constantly in other peoples airspace, it happens, and Russia is rightfully upset. Turks were itching to do this. Seems like they wanted it to happen.

What is said publically and privately are two very different matters. I'm sure the other NATO members made it clear to Turkey they do more of this shit they'll be in it alone. Russia can't do a whole lot. I guess they could shoot down a Turkish jet in Syria. Which probably would lead to a nasty trade war of some sort. And the end of NATO, or Turkey leaving NATO because like I said if Turkey tries to invoke Art. 5. ... not gonna happen.

The whole Syria situation is beyond messy. There's a dozen players wanting a dozen different things. What Turkey is most afraid of is a free Kurdistan. And it's happening. This goes on another 4 years, Syria won't exist anymore. There will be Asad country, ISIS country and Kurdistan and lot of contested areas inbetween. Someones gotta slap the Turks on the fingers though and let them know it's happening and there's absolutely nothing they can do about it. They might go after Turkish special operation forces that are operating in Syria. More likely Russia will intensify bombing partners of Turkey within Syria.

Russia will go after those Turkmen, and kill them. No question. I think the West is slowly waking up and realising that Erdogan is dangerous. He's a nationalist and an islamist and he's not afraid to play dirty. He needs to go. And I think he'll be gone in 1-2 years. The turkish military is pretty fed up of him already, having to fight a bloody fight with the kurds that is rather unnecesary. CIA needs to find a Turkish general with balls and clout and Erdogan will be gone. What do you think will happen to Turkey once all these armed kurds run out of enemies in iraq and Syria? They'll turn on Turkey. Now that's scary. There's nothing Turkey can do to prevent that from happening apart from appeasing the Kurds. Erdogan messed up the whole situation. Syria blowing up was a chance for Turkey, had they simply supported the Kurds instead of the Sunni extremists they could have a free Kurdistan in Syria, the Kurdish problem within Turkey would subside and a whole bunch of unwanted Kurds would leave Turkey to go live in Kurdistan. But of course the Turkish pride would never allow to even consider such a scenario. Of course neither Shia Iraq or Shia Iran would welcome a Kurdish state. Iraq would lose some of it's most valuable oil fields, as would Syria, whom until 4 years ago was Irans natural ally.

Anyway, myself I think the Kurds are the most honourable bunch around that area. At least they fight and pretty much deliver or follow through doing what they say they're doing. The rest of them...two faced scum, every time. Turkeys probably cheesed of mightily because they've probably been told by the Americans in no uncertain terms to don't go near certain Kurdish controlled areas because there are now US forces embedded there. At the same time US needs Turkey for their airbase in Incirlik, not only for the current campaign for also for logistical support for what's left in Afghanistan. Everything that goes to Afghanistan goes through Incirlik.
(This post was last modified: 11-27-2015, 08:24 PM by Sexiback.)
11-27-2015, 08:18 PM
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Dash Global Offline
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Post: #6
RE: WWIII - Russian fighter shot down by NATO
Kurds will get their area just like they have it in Iraq. Officially or unofficially.

Not really sure why Turkey cares so much. Not like it is any real threat to Turkey itself.

Must just be a pride thing they need to get over.
11-29-2015, 02:54 AM
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SpecialEd Offline
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RE: WWIII - Russian fighter shot down by NATO
(11-29-2015, 02:54 AM)Dash Global Wrote: Kurds will get their area just like they have it in Iraq. Officially or unofficially.

Not really sure why Turkey cares so much. Not like it is any real threat to Turkey itself.

Must just be a pride thing they need to get over.

Erdogan wants to revive the Ottoman Empire.

He sees ISIS, and jihadist groups as the best way of accomplishing that.

Kurds make up around 25% of Turkey's population. If they did a full-blow insurrection, Turkey would have it's hands full.

They've been trying to get rid of them (ala the Armenians) for years -but they're formidable fighters. I agree with SB though. If there is any group in the M.E we should back, it ought to be the Kurds. They're pretty reasonable.
11-29-2015, 03:42 AM
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Sexiback Offline
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Post: #8
RE: WWIII - Russian fighter shot down by NATO
We've had plenty of kurds in central europe since the 80s and I've never heard of a kurd causing trouble, not like balcan people have, that are notorious for crime and skimming social insurances.

It happens, you back the wrong horse. We probably should be backing Iran over Saudi arabia these days. But the issue with Iran is they're too outspoken about their hate for the jews and israel. Saudis have swallowed their pride and just pretend like Israel don't exist.

That's the thing though, Turkey is heading straight for a nasty insurgency, bombing kurds in both Iraq and Syria under the pretense of bombing ISIS. Nasty stuff is already going on in Eastern Turkey with people getting abducted and murderered. By police, and then by Kurdish Rebels abducting officials. Like I said, Turkey had a real chance to finally fix their Kurd problem and instead they exacerbated it.

It's that nationalist pride tho. They can't get over it. They never could.

Middle east is a mess cause everyone hates everyone. Turks hate kurds and arabs. Shia hate Sunni. Sunni hate all. All hate jews. Most despise Christians and the west. It'll take another 100 years of open and covert confrontations before any meaningful progress is made.

11-29-2015, 04:34 AM
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RE: WWIII - Russian fighter shot down by NATO
Yes - well alot of this comes down to genes.

The Persians (and their cousins the Kurds) are indo-Europeans. They're of a similar stock to us. Hence why it's not unusual to see an Iranian with blonde hair, and light eyes.

They had a magnificent, refined civilization even before the Greeks did - and while the Arabs were still figuring out how to ride camels.

Frankly, one of the greatest tragedies of history was the Islamic-conquest of Persia. (Historians still marvel just how a bunch of Semetic nomads were able to accomplish that.)

That said - the noble Persian still runs deep in the veins of the Iranian people. If it weren't for the backwards puritanical element ruling the country, they'd probably count themselves amongst the 1st world. We ought to be their friends - and drop the Israelis.

As for the Turks, blood has always rained wherever they go. They're a violent, barbarous people...making the Arabs look relatively civilized in comparison. The only thing they understand is the fist.

I'm almost giddy they've provoked the Russians - certainly bitten off more than they can chew this time. Hope they get kicked out of NATO, and left to their own defenses...
11-29-2015, 06:35 AM
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Hicks Offline
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Post: #10
RE: WWIII - Russian fighter shot down by NATO
(11-29-2015, 06:35 AM)SpecialEd Wrote: I'm almost giddy they've provoked the Russians - certainly bitten off more than they can chew this time. Hope they get kicked out of NATO, and left to their own defenses...



Do you believe Turkey would have engaged without knowing they had the support of either NATO or a superpower? Erdogan might still be giddy from the hubris that comes with rigging an election but this would be insanely arrogant, even by his standards.
11-29-2015, 07:32 AM
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SpecialEd Offline
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RE: WWIII - Russian fighter shot down by NATO
^My initial reaction was that NATO (ie..the U.S) was behind him.

But now - I'm beginning to suspect he's a rogue dog. His meddling in Syria/Iraq, and his anti-Kurd stance make him more trouble than he's worth (from the American perspective). Even mainstream U.S news outlets are reporting Turkey's involvement with ISIS. It's going to be bad business to continue supporting him.

It wouldn't surprise me if NATO booted him out.
11-29-2015, 07:41 AM
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007 Game Offline
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RE: WWIII - Russian fighter shot down by NATO
Your 19th century fascination of blood and "stock" is very interesting, it's like watching a documentary about the the Nazi Youth movement.



(11-29-2015, 06:35 AM)SpecialEd Wrote: Yes - well alot of this comes down to genes.

The Persians (and their cousins the Kurds) are indo-Europeans. They're of a similar stock to us. Hence why it's not unusual to see an Iranian with blonde hair, and light eyes.

They had a magnificent, refined civilization even before the Greeks did - and while the Arabs were still figuring out how to ride camels.

Frankly, one of the greatest tragedies of history was the Islamic-conquest of Persia. (Historians still marvel just how a bunch of Semetic nomads were able to accomplish that.)

That said - the noble Persian still runs deep in the veins of the Iranian people. If it weren't for the backwards puritanical element ruling the country, they'd probably count themselves amongst the 1st world. We ought to be their friends - and drop the Israelis.

As for the Turks, blood has always rained wherever they go. They're a violent, barbarous people...making the Arabs look relatively civilized in comparison. The only thing they understand is the fist.

I'm almost giddy they've provoked the Russians - certainly bitten off more than they can chew this time. Hope they get kicked out of NATO, and left to their own defenses...

11-30-2015, 04:31 AM
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Post: #13
RE: WWIII - Russian fighter shot down by NATO
There is nobody more fascinated with "stock" than your people - the Jews.Wink In case you forgot, you live in a state where only your ancient lineage determines citizenship.

For some reason, you're uncomfortable with other people raising the subject...

P.S. The Nazis weren't around in the 19th century.

(11-30-2015, 04:31 AM)007 Game Wrote: Your 19th century fascination of blood and "stock" is very interesting, it's like watching a documentary about the the Nazi Youth movement.
11-30-2015, 05:21 AM
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Sexiback Offline
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RE: WWIII - Russian fighter shot down by NATO
How about you stop pussyfooting around and agree on a good old fair fistfight. I'm happy to referee.
11-30-2015, 06:51 AM
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007 Game Offline
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Post: #15
RE: WWIII - Russian fighter shot down by NATO
The Nazis didn't invent anything:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Lueger

Fist fight? Sure... I can hire anyone I want to stand in for me, right? I'm thinking Ronda Rousey.
11-30-2015, 08:28 AM
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