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Trump Is Unstoppable
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Dash Global Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Trump Is Unstoppable
The notion of banning guns in the US aint happening.

Would be revolts and riots galore.

Even if the US did ban guns, they are not difficult to make.

People would start making them in their garage the moment they were seized.
06-14-2016, 01:16 AM
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MotherRussia Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Trump Is Unstoppable
(06-13-2016, 11:27 PM)Hicks Wrote: Australia would have been the example I'd have used as they completely changed their gun policy and it would be the best example of a country going from an open gun policy to a restricted one, but here's something I found more US-centric:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/20...rearm.html

Australia has advantages that a country like the U.S. doesn't have, like being somewhat isolated on an island. The U.S. sees their guns from Mexico come back up through the border. 

The U.S. can ban guns, it is going to do nothing in the long run. I am for more strict background checks and making sure guns don't legally get into the hands of unstable people, but criminals will always have guns. You ban guns and the only people who won't have guns are the ones in the demographic who will not commit crime. Gangs and criminals will still have guns. It's crazy to assume that somehow our inefficient government will be able to collect all the guns in America. Just like drugs before, weapons are going to be the primarily illegal export from Mexico and the rest of the Americas. 

Look at the statistics, 90+ of all crimes with guns are committed by people who obtained the gun illegally. Guns don't kill people, people do. The root of the problem is not guns, it's people and society. A more fair economic system where everyone has a legitimate chance to prosper will breed a society that is not hellbent on resorting to crime to get their piece of the pie. A Hillary presidency will only make things worse in that respect. 

I like Bernie because he is not an establishment guy. If he were to get into the White House, he doesn't owe corporations any favors, he is not corrupt. Trump is another guy who hasn't taken money from corporations, however I do have problems with some of his policies, but I do believe of a lot of the shit he says is just rhetoric so he can embolden people to vote for him. I mean there is literally 0% chance he can get anything done as a President, at least for what he is campaigning for now. Democrats hate him and he doesn't have the backing of a lot of Republicans. So people saying that the world will end if he is elected are naive.

Isn't it funny, though, that the people who think that all say they are going to move to Canada...Canada...Why not Mexico?

Trump tells it like it is, I like that. I would so much rather have him and Hillary...a person who believes her vagina is a reason for her to become President. A person who thinks that she deserves to be President because it's her turn after playing the establishment game. A person that will do and say anything to be President. A person who servers the interest of Corporations, not the people.

Also, it pisses me off that Bernie is not going to run as a 3rd party or independent. I think he is a bitch. He will do anything so Trump doesn't get reelected. Bernie was soft as fuck against Hillary. All that talk about starting a revolution and he actually has a real chance to do that by running and he won't because he doesn't have the balls to do it.

I just hope that Trump can get in there and change the election process, making it easier for 3rd parties to run.
06-14-2016, 05:55 AM
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Hicks Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Trump Is Unstoppable
Just for the record I am for gun-control, not completely banning them.  I think somebody should be able to own a firearm but not just anybody.  There should be certain background checks and psychological checks a person should have to undergo.
(This post was last modified: 06-14-2016, 06:48 AM by Hicks.)
06-14-2016, 06:47 AM
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Dash Global Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Trump Is Unstoppable
(06-14-2016, 05:55 AM)MotherRussia Wrote:
(06-13-2016, 11:27 PM)Hicks Wrote: Australia would have been the example I'd have used as they completely changed their gun policy and it would be the best example of a country going from an open gun policy to a restricted one, but here's something I found more US-centric:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/20...rearm.html

Australia has advantages that a country like the U.S. doesn't have, like being somewhat isolated on an island. The U.S. sees their guns from Mexico come back up through the border. 

The U.S. can ban guns, it is going to do nothing in the long run. I am for more strict background checks and making sure guns don't legally get into the hands of unstable people, but criminals will always have guns. You ban guns and the only people who won't have guns are the ones in the demographic who will not commit crime. Gangs and criminals will still have guns. It's crazy to assume that somehow our inefficient government will be able to collect all the guns in America. Just like drugs before, weapons are going to be the primarily illegal export from Mexico and the rest of the Americas. 

Look at the statistics, 90+ of all crimes with guns are committed by people who obtained the gun illegally. Guns don't kill people, people do. The root of the problem is not guns, it's people and society. A more fair economic system where everyone has a legitimate chance to prosper will breed a society that is not hellbent on resorting to crime to get their piece of the pie. A Hillary presidency will only make things worse in that respect. 

I like Bernie because he is not an establishment guy. If he were to get into the White House, he doesn't owe corporations any favors, he is not corrupt. Trump is another guy who hasn't taken money from corporations, however I do have problems with some of his policies, but I do believe of a lot of the shit he says is just rhetoric so he can embolden people to vote for him. I mean there is literally 0% chance he can get anything done as a President, at least for what he is campaigning for now. Democrats hate him and he doesn't have the backing of a lot of Republicans. So people saying that the world will end if he is elected are naive.

Isn't it funny, though, that the people who think that all say they are going to move to Canada...Canada...Why not Mexico?

Trump tells it like it is, I like that. I would so much rather have him and Hillary...a person who believes her vagina is a reason for her to become President. A person who thinks that she deserves to be President because it's her turn after playing the establishment game. A person that will do and say anything to be President. A person who servers the interest of Corporations, not the people.

Also, it pisses me off that Bernie is not going to run as a 3rd party or independent. I think he is a bitch. He will do anything so Trump doesn't get reelected. Bernie was soft as fuck against Hillary. All that talk about starting a revolution and he actually has a real chance to do that by running and he won't because he doesn't have the balls to do it.

I just hope that Trump can get in there and change the election process, making it easier for 3rd parties to run.

Your overlooking something. 

Both Bernie and Trump will/would have to accept tons of money from mega donors and the party to run in a general. 

General elections are on a whole different level than primaries. Primaries costs millions. Generals cost billions.

You can use personal funding and small donations for a primary. This years general is predicted to cost in upwards of 10 billion dollars.

The system is rigged that there is no way to escape the use of mega donors.
(This post was last modified: 06-14-2016, 11:53 AM by Dash Global.)
06-14-2016, 11:49 AM
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SpecialEd Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Trump Is Unstoppable
No, it's about $1-2 billion for a general election campaign. Trump could, in theory, cannibalize a substantial portion of his net worth to cover the cost of the campaign.

Though a lot of people say he's not worth what he claims. So there's that...
06-14-2016, 01:14 PM
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Dash Global Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Trump Is Unstoppable
It rises every year, and especially now that the Supreme Court ruled in favor of money in politics.

I predict atleast 2.5-3 billion this year.

Trump is not even thinking about funding a general (he would be stupid to).

Pretty sure he doesnt even have 2 billion liquid.

He can afford to drop 50 - 100 million. Not billions.

His team has already said they plan to use donor money.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/05/18/politi...ig-donors/

http://www.vox.com/2016/5/9/11640038/don...-big-money
06-14-2016, 01:28 PM
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SpecialEd Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Trump Is Unstoppable
Honestly, Trump's biggest selling point is that he's self-funding (ie...not a bought candidate).

If he had to liquidate half his assets to maintain that image, it'd be worth it.

It's not like a president is ever going to have to worry about putting food on the table...

P.S. Bernie has proven himself to be a beta sell-out. He'll be at Hilary's table begging for scraps shortly. Very disappointing. I'm already starting to cool on this election...looks like more of the same shit.
(This post was last modified: 06-14-2016, 02:18 PM by SpecialEd.)
06-14-2016, 02:15 PM
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Dash Global Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Trump Is Unstoppable
Trump biggest selling point is being and outsider hated by the establishment and media.

Self funding is a good point also but no way in hell hebis gonna liquadate that much.

His followers are gonna vote for him regardless.

He is facing Hilary for Christ's sake. Easy choice for a lot of people.
06-14-2016, 03:25 PM
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calamansi Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Trump Is Unstoppable
(06-14-2016, 05:55 AM)MotherRussia Wrote: it is going to do nothing in the long run.

making sure guns don't legally get into the hands of unstable people

but criminals will always have guns.

Gangs and criminals will still have guns.

90+ of all crimes with guns are committed by people who obtained the gun illegally.

I hear this all the time. Problem is, it's perfectly contradictory. You're all for gun control, tougher checks, longer wait times... make damn sure not just anyone can get a gun!

But in the same breath, the mantra is that anyone who wants a gun will get one, illegal or not. Can't stop it and it's stupid to try.

So which is it? Do laws stop people who shouldn't have guns from getting one or not? Will those who want a gun find a way around the law to get one or won't they?

Unless I'm missing something, you can't *rationally* hold both positions - unless that position is "making guns illegal won't stop anyone from getting one but implementing tougher checks will stop them cold". LOL
06-14-2016, 03:32 PM
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Dash Global Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Trump Is Unstoppable
Calamansi, One is not an opinion. It's a fact.

It's like saying you agree with speeding limits while also saying people that want to speed will still speed.
06-14-2016, 04:58 PM
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Dash Global Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Trump Is Unstoppable
At the end of the day you still got to have laws regardless if people will follow them or not.
06-14-2016, 05:00 PM
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Post: #57
RE: Trump Is Unstoppable
Calamansi are you from the US?

I'll offer some context on the American psyche or is it psycho? Lol

In the US, gun violence is epidemic yet the government and culture is so messed up the people feel they need a gun to protect be themselfs from each other and potential genocide from the government as well. People need to look at history really hard and see all the genocide the hands of the state have caused around the globe. They registered then confiscated civilian firearms prior to all that mayhem-not a coincidence. Foreign tourists especially white ones who visit America need to be careful in top 100 sized citites as the downtown and citites inner often inside the intestate belt ways are full of goons with pistols and many of them are various ethnic street gangs. Americans can get guns off the street for $200 easy. It's so puritanical yet savage at the same time- only America could be so hypocritical but it is what it is.
06-14-2016, 09:37 PM
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MotherRussia Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Trump Is Unstoppable
(06-14-2016, 03:32 PM)calamansi Wrote:
(06-14-2016, 05:55 AM)MotherRussia Wrote: it is going to do nothing in the long run.

making sure guns don't legally get into the hands of unstable people

but criminals will always have guns.

Gangs and criminals will still have guns.

90+ of all crimes with guns are committed by people who obtained the gun illegally.

I hear this all the time. Problem is, it's perfectly contradictory. You're all for gun control, tougher checks, longer wait times... make damn sure not just anyone can get a gun!

But in the same breath, the mantra is that anyone who wants a gun will get one, illegal or not. Can't stop it and it's stupid to try.

So which is it? Do laws stop people who shouldn't have guns from getting one or not? Will those who want a gun find a way around the law to get one or won't they?

Unless I'm missing something, you can't *rationally* hold both positions - unless that position is "making guns illegal won't stop anyone from getting one but implementing tougher checks will stop them cold". LOL


There is a line you are missing.

On one end there are is a demographic of people who have easy access to guns. Those who are poor and in the inner city who are surrounded by crime won't have any problem get their hands on a gun. If they go the legal route and are denied they can just call the local seller and pick up a firearm.

And at the other end there are the mentally unstable. They come in all different shapes and sizes and all levels of instability. Yes, there were will be some so determined that they will probably get a gun. However, not all of them live in the inner city, not all of them know how to obtain one illegally, not all of them know someone on the streets who will get them a firearm. If they are thwarted from purchasing a firearm they could very will become defeated in their pursuit. It won't always work in that some will still pursue it, but remember these minds are unstable and once defeated one time they could completely lose that impulse all together. It's not perfect, but it is better.

You can't just look at the whole picture and make broad assertions that it is contradictory. Stricter checks could definitely prevent unstable minds getting a gun. 

So this is who you would be targeting.

How is that not rational?
(This post was last modified: 06-15-2016, 11:02 AM by MotherRussia.)
06-15-2016, 10:59 AM
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calamansi Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Trump Is Unstoppable
Well, that's a nice theory you propose, but in reality it's meaningless, isn't it? There have been more than 6000 deaths due to guns so far this year and we're not even at the six-month mark. How many of those are committed by the people you want to legally try to prevent from getting a gun?

The biggest problem with guns is that gun nuts can't have a rational discussion about it to begin with. The idea that, legal or not, anybody could still get a gun if they wanted one, is ridiculous, and yet it's all I ever hear. That makes as much sense as, if a criminal wants to get into your house, they'll find a way. But you still lock your doors, don't you? Would some criminals still obtain them? Of course. But making guns illegal would drastically reduce the number. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Yeah, well, it's a lot harder for people to kill people without a gun that with one. Would people kill with a knife? Sure. But guaranteed fewer people would die. The US is head and shoulders above every other developed nation on Earth for gun deaths. That people think this is a coincidence is ludicrous.

Illegal guns = fewer guns = fewer deaths. End of story. Not zero deaths, just far fewer. People can only seem to argue using extremes.

That said, I'm not necessarily anti-gun. I don't know how I feel about it. I know that if a guy twice my size wanted to kill me with his bare hands, he could, and there's not much I could do about it. Having a gun to even the playing field would be nice and I think that morally, I should have that right to defend myself properly. And if a guy attacks me, even without the intent to kill me, I still think he deserves some lead in the head. Fuck him. No one has the right to go around beating people up or robbing them and I'm not sure that shooting him is overkill, excuse the pun.

But despite my wish to have access to a gun in a violent society, I can still be rational and see that the proliferation of guns in the US is causing a lot more deaths with than without.

The other side of this too is that it's not the guns, it's the violent attitudes prevalent in the US. Everyone wants to be a thug. No one wants to walk away. It's unmanly to back down or diffuse. The only acceptable way to deal with things (among men) is to escalate until the other guy backs down, if he does. And if he doesn't, then fight. But even if this is true, guns still make it a lot easier for what would've been just a bloody fight to turn into an easy homocide.

There's just no arguing the NUMBER of deaths is higher because of widespread guns. The only question is whether or not that matters if, without them, it's the wrong people that would die most.
06-15-2016, 12:33 PM
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SpecialEd Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Trump Is Unstoppable
I don't argue that banning/limiting gun ownership would reduce the number of deaths---in the same way I can't argue that banning cars would save lots of lives. You can say the same thing about alcohol, cigarettes, and so on.

It's an issue of freedom. Why sacrifice your liberties because other people lack self-control and decency? Explain to me the logic in that.

Also, since I avoid thugs and bad neighborhoods, I have very little to worry about from them. (And frankly, I don't give a fuck if the lower elements of society want to shoot each other up. Let 'em go on with it...)

I think the FAR greater concern is a government gone rogue. We already have a semi-police state in the U.S, and our police are well-known for their brutality. It's not uncommon for them to shoot people in the back for pete's sake...

The people ought to have the ability to fight back--if need be.

Believe you me, politicians bleating about saving lives by prohibiting guns are full of shit. If they cared about that, they wouldn't be starting wars at every opportunity--or selling military-grade weapons throughout the 3rd world.

What they're doing with the anti-gun movement is actually a pre-emptive maneuver against the inevitable domestic chaos that will ensue when the the bubble economy we have pops like a balloon. Jobless, hungry people with guns = a BIG problem.

P.S. Comparing the U.S to the U.K, or Australia is silly for a number of reasons. Demographics are very different. (You don't see the high gun violence amongst whites in the U.S--its minority groups). But also, the UK, and Australia have become castrated societies with large nanny-police states. Low violence or not. It's not something any nation should wish to emulate.)
06-15-2016, 01:19 PM
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